Curse

Senator Tom · Jan 09, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agyar

It reminds me too much of PvP in WoW, with every idiot doing whatever the hell they feel like at the time and yelling at each other like deranged neighbours.

well, im level 44 in wow and so far pvp in there isn't like that >.<

the two places i've done so far are Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch
arathi basin is like, well, alliance battles. lots of the time a group of five will enter as a team, (three groups of 5 total), and lots of communication goes on. basically there are five points, each of them you want to defend. in the chat people will be saying "incoming at point x" or "need defense at point x", and people come. Warsong Gulch is like capture the flag, which is two teams of five. its usually very organized. for alliance at least, some night elves will stay back at the base because they have the ability to turn invisible but they cant move or it ends the skill. so they will stay at the base and defend it (unless there is a massive zerg) then with about two or three on defense, the rest will go and assault the flag, usually a few will distract, then one person will go in and take the flag with a few people to escort him.

just felt like defending wow.

on the guild wars side, i really dont enjoy RA. if the glad title had an emote, maybe, but until then, HA for me. ra to me is just so, well, random...and i feel like whenever i monk i get people who do not understand the concept of kiting the melee that are constantly on me or interrupting the three dom mesmers >.< thank you tom for sharing that info with the newbs. i know that you cant really be good right off the bat, so hey newbs, just keep playing and learn from mistakes, dont rage at the monk for not being able to heal. and TA for me is more like practice for split builds, so hey. good guide though, some people take the info for granted, but its acctually very essential.

Absum · Jan 09, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

why not?

this was my RA team that went to TA and rolled TA teams 52 times (too bad gladiator points weren't there yet)

it can happen.

but yea, newer players should not only play RA but should progress to TA, HA and GvG as well. points are just a bonus, remember.

Why not? How many reasons would you like? Here are a few!

1. It is UNRELIABLE

2. RA and TA are not what they used to be. Do not use examples of experiences you had in RA or TA before titles were implemented as a means to justify your present actions, please, or I may have a stress induced heart attack. Why, you may ask, would this stress me out enough to have a heart attack? Because I like to believe people have the capacity to be outstanding beings of reason that come to conclusions supported by ideals such as integrity, pride and respect. If you would like a thesis that provides further insight into my philosophy on this subject and how it is validated in this situation and fully incorporated into the human existence, I will be more than happy to provide one.

3 through 47905940585647788991. Located somewhere in the latter half(tangent) of reason 2, if you think about it hard enough.

47905940585647788992. It is unreliable.

47905940585647788993. Random Arena is a completely different structure than Team Arena. Receiving the same award for getting 10 wins in RA as the award for 10 wins in TA is *ludicrous*(please look up the word if you don't have a very good grasp of its meaning). The awarded title should be different. If RA wins had a different title, as they should, would you farm those points? I highly doubt it. It's a form of abuse to receive credit that is not deserved, and shouldn't be tolerated.

tomcruisejr · Jan 09, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absum

Why not? How many reasons would you like? Here are a few!

1. It is UNRELIABLE

but imagine everytime you zone to RA, everybody knows what theyre supposed to do.. wouldn't that be shocking?

Quote:

47905940585647788993. Random Arena is a completely different structure than Team Arena. Receiving the same award for getting 10 wins in RA as the award for 10 wins in TA is *ludicrous*(please look up the word if you don't have a very good grasp of its meaning). The awarded title should be different. If RA wins had a different title, as they should, would you farm those points? I highly doubt it. It's a form of abuse to receive credit that is not deserved, and shouldn't be tolerated.

yea RA gladiator rank should have emotes coz its very hard to get 10 wins from there (w/o syncing of course) :P

Absum · Jan 09, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

but imagine everytime you zone to RA, everybody knows what theyre supposed to do.. wouldn't that be shocking?

It's not the intended purpose of RA. It will never happen, nor should it ever be expected or hoped for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

yea RA gladiator rank should have emotes coz its very hard to get 10 wins from there (w/o syncing of course) :P

Yes.. because luck is required more than any other factor.

urania · Jan 09, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

indeed...sometimes you just get a godly team that makes it to TA and rolls several TA teams before finallly leaving/losing...and sometimes you just get plain crap ^^

Yanman.be · Jan 09, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Monking in RA, or this new curse necro I made ( plain ol' SS and some other anti-melee hexes ) is pretty much a glad point per half hour.

urania · Jan 09, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

why not?

this was my RA team that went to TA and rolled TA teams 52 times (too bad gladiator points weren't there yet)

it can happen.

but yea, newer players should not only play RA but should progress to TA, HA and GvG as well. points are just a bonus, remember.

1st off..such team would get pretty fast owned by any decent team that'd shut you down and keep melee blinded/hexed to death...

secondly...yes, sometimes teams you get in RA are good, that however by no means whatsoever means one should only do RA. hey, if i look at the RA teams i made it to TA with most of them were almost the same as a standard TA team, ie. 2 thumps+b surge shut down mes or 2 necs (spoil+reapers)+thump/interrupt ranger or interrupt ranger+degen nec+mes shutdown...in other words, you win in TA if you get a TA-like team.
but most of the times hex removal in such teams is lacking if you don't play divert hex monk, so you can easily get rolled by a well organised TA team, especially if they're hexers.

end lesson of the day: test stuff in RA or play it when really bored, else TA is the way to go.

Divineshadows · Jan 09, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Monking in RA, or this new curse necro I made ( plain ol' SS and some other anti-melee hexes ) is pretty much a glad point per half hour.

To attain that rate, you must be entering from international or non-American districts, because, quite frankly, the vast majority of American players in RA suck a lot and in really bad and almost unimaginable ways. The American RA players daily invent new ways to fail and are ever pushing onward to new frontiers of unexplored layers of suck.

When I enter RA from international districts, I probably get a rate of a gladiator point every half hour to hour when running a monk or reaper's mark necromancer. When I enter from American districts running the very same builds, this rate crawls to a gladiator point every 2 to 2.5 hours in RA.

urania · Jan 09, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

oh boy, can it actually be worse than eu districts...xD

Zui · Jan 10, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

oh boy, can it actually be worse than eu districts...xD

Yes.
12chars

Bowstring Badass · Jan 10, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Are you threatening me? -- Beavis

Respect my authority. -- Cartman

I stickied it for newer, more inexperienced players trying to learn the game. Many of these players begin their learning experience in RA due to lack of having built up a friends list containing PvP players. Syra provided some nice insights for players trying to learn the game in RA and some of the thought processes about the choices you can make during a match. I wanted this information easily visible and accessible to these such players.

People don't understand because they are as Carlos Mencia would say "deedeedee".

And for the newer players I would suggest one thing to have in your bar (unless your a monk I can excuse it) is a Resurrection Signet aka Res Sig and a full bar. And don't do anything stupid like if you are a Warrior don't run in straight into a line of like 5 spirits including but not limited to Wanderlust, Blood Song, Pain, Shadow Song and others. And have at the least 455 health.

Agyar · Jan 10, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

well, im level 44 in wow and so far pvp in there isn't like that >.<

the two places i've done so far are Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch
arathi basin is like, well, alliance battles. lots of the time a group of five will enter as a team, (three groups of 5 total), and lots of communication goes on. basically there are five points, each of them you want to defend. in the chat people will be saying "incoming at point x" or "need defense at point x", and people come. Warsong Gulch is like capture the flag, which is two teams of five. its usually very organized. for alliance at least, some night elves will stay back at the base because they have the ability to turn invisible but they cant move or it ends the skill. so they will stay at the base and defend it (unless there is a massive zerg) then with about two or three on defense, the rest will go and assault the flag, usually a few will distract, then one person will go in and take the flag with a few people to escort him.

just felt like defending wow.

Comparing Arathi Basin to Alliance Battles is pretty close. They both require a minimal amount of organisation and strategy (most "super elite AB teams" still do the exact same thing people did a year and a half ago when it came out, 1 at farm/stables, 5 to two nodes and 4 to another, then readjust as people spam their # INC TO LUMBER MILL macros in raid chat). WSG isn't much better, with the pinnacle of strategy being the decision of how many people you want to have on defense, mid-line or flag-running. And in all cases, people play with individual capabilities in mind.

The association I make between WoW PvP and RA, even with "organised teams", is that beyond those basic strategies, people just do whatever they want in the actual skirmishes and basically act as they see fit wherever they go. There's nothing even close to the level of cooperation and tactical decision-making required in GW (everywhere bar RA, that is). You just rush in, and one group will bowl the other over due to the laughable difference in offensive and defensive capabilities that most classes possess. Beyond having a healer tagging along in some of the 5-man groups, people basically just handle themselves. Very much like most RA groups. In addition, players in WoW manage their own spec's, gear and focus in combat (due to the nature of the game) - much like RA, where you bring along your individual builds and hope they work together as a team (rather than tailoring a entire build to fit 4, 6 or 8 people).

Of course, this only all applies if you're running in a pre-made/guild group, otherwise it's basically just a pickup group, where the games run for half an hour and people run around wherever they feel like doing whatever they want. And considering most games in all those battle grounds feature at least one PuG group, if not two, I think it's fair to say that the majority of WoW PvP is pretty damn close to RA in terms of organisation.

I spent the better part of two years playing WoW and I spent a lot of time playing in and even running groups in these BGs. And the scarce amounts of actual strategy and skill required to succeed in that environment is part of the reason I don't play that game anymore.

End aside.

P.S. I hear the new Arena PvP areas of WoW are a little better, but aside from saying there's only so much you can improve without huge changes to the classes, I won't comment on these as I have not played them.

JYX · Jan 10, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

People don't understand because they are as Carlos Mencia would say "deedeedee".

And for the newer players I would suggest one thing to have in your bar (unless your a monk I can excuse it) is a Resurrection Signet aka Res Sig and a full bar. And don't do anything stupid like if you are a Warrior don't run in straight into a line of like 5 spirits including but not limited to Wanderlust, Blood Song, Pain, Shadow Song and others. And have at the least 455 health.

A bigger problem than not having res sig would be not using or knowing when to use res sig. I know some people get into a trance-like state when spamming flare on the warrior who's beating on them, but it does help to look at the party menu once in a while.

Divineshadows · Jan 31, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I un-stuck the thread now that it's been a month since the latest Christmas crowd got unleashed into the game. If they haven't cut their teeth by now from experience or found this thread and supplemented their experience with the knowledge so graciously shared by tomcruisejr, then they never will IMO.

ainkami · Jan 31, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

>>Agyar
WoW is very different from GW. In WoW, you grind for levels and better gear. If you are 10 levels above another player and have uber gear, you are virtually invincible. In GW, everyone can get max pvp gear with very little faction farming. It is mostly skillbar choice and general pvp experience that counts.

TA and RA are very different. In TA, any decent team will carry the right builds. Therefore, you are forced to beat them using superior pvp experience and cordination(which requires vent) YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE VENT/TS so you can get draw daze off your monk in time. This makes TA glad farming off limits to those without Vent or TS.

In RA, people are matched up randomly. It is very important to identify good team and leave bad teams. Eg. There is no way you will win with a team of 3 wa/mo. (Don't feel too bad, they would have lost whether you stayed or not). Since good monks are much harder to find than good DD, the best option is to play as a monk if you can. A good successful team simply consists of: a good monk and an-anti monk character. Having gotten over 80+ glads, I would say most teams that made 10 wins with me have 1.5-2 additional player that run decent & competent builds. There is usually one newbie in the team but it is usually not a problem.

The best way to know which build to take is to visit TA. Just PM someone nicely and ask, or just take a look at what is most wanted in local chat.

minor · Feb 01, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Why in the world did you have to tell people how to sync in. I lost to all guild team in Ra the other night after like 8 wins. I called them on syncing in and got told well we flawlessed you noob.

Other then that good points, and yes i now alot of ppl know the sync trick but posting again doesn't help.

Symbol · Feb 01, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

I find that playing RA is an excellent way to get familiar with a build and hone individual skills. Especially when playing warrior, it lets you practice key skills like:

1) Learning to recognize prot and when to switch targets
2) Building and spiking, and learning to conceal a spike (most RA monks are hopeless, but on the rare occasion you face a good one this is needed)
3) Safe use of frenzy
4) Effective use of bull's strike (this is tricky, because people in RA tend to kite erratically or not at all)
5) Target prioritization and learning to recognize skills/builds

RA is still a cesspit, but you can get something out of it with patience.

Morganas · Feb 08, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Tips for RA as I've learned them, besides the obvious choice in districts:

1) Play a burst sin, nec hexer (no, not life transfer), or monk (only if you're good at it). Play nothing else, especially not a rit (see below).

2) If your team has 2 healers, or a healer and a spirit spammer, leave. Though this team might get a glad point, it won't be worth the time it takes. Even one spirit spammer will slow your team down, as every enemy team with an intelligent player will move around alot.

3) The average RA monk is horrendously unskilled, and dead weight. The ideal team is either all heavy offense, or all heavy offense + you monking. Leave after the first round if your monk is bad, and hope you don't get a monk next round.

4) Don't monk stomp unless it's a bonder, just attack whatever will maximize your damage, so your ideal target is some combination of low armor, no secondary (on a monk, a good sign that you CAN stomp them), and sucks at kiting.

5) Direct your team. If you're a warrior and the monk is /A, and you can't hit him, ask the paragon or whatever to pressure him while you hit something else.

Master Ketsu · Feb 08, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Ive found R/A is good for fine tuning your skills at interrupting, or how to be a good sin ( if you see a sin with a glad title, chances are hes good )

Builds I notice work well in R/A:

Zealous ben Monk/ Or just any good monk.
Burning arrow Ranger ( modified )
Burst sins
Repeat combo sins ( if played right...they take getting used to but its better then burst sins when you get it down )
Hex N/me ( use a good curses combo )
Thumper sometimes works, but only if you get a competent monk.
anti monk mesmer ( again, only if you have a monk on your team as well )

DO NOT USE:
W/mo. out of the 89 or so gladpoints I have only 1 was with a w/mo on my team and he wasnt using any monk skills anyways.

Elementalist that needs to cast anything over 1 second. THey get raped by burst sins.

Blood necro. Its a good 1v1 build but the Dps is not enough to help your team, so dont do it.

spirit spam Ritualist. In the end you only slow everything down, and most of the teams you beat would be noobs you could beat with any other class anyways.

------

other stuff Ive seen has worked/didnt work but Im just saying this out of experiance.

Oso Minar · Feb 08, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Play nothing else, especially not a rit (see below).
2) If your team has 2 healers, or a healer and a spirit spammer, leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

DO NOT USE:
spirit spam Ritualist. In the end you only slow everything down, and most of the teams you beat would be noobs you could beat with any other class anyways.

Wow, lots o'Ritualist hate on the PvP boards lately. While yes, I do agree that Spirit-Spamming Ritualists do slow the play down a lot, there's no reason to discourage people from trying to play a Ritualist in PvP. Ritualists can make excellent healers even when they don't use Spirits. Recently, I've had an excellent bit of luck running a VW/RoD/WoR combination in conjunction with a few other skills. No spirits needed, and you end up picking off the stupid melee folk who don't know how to switch targets.

Also, Spirit-Spamming Ritualists are often an incredible annoyance due to the Spirits' ability to body-block incoming melee folk. I will rarely bring more than one spirit (although Recovery isn't TOO bad, and it enables bonuses from MB&S as well), but it's handy to be able to kite when you can run through them, and your pursuer cannot. The Spammers, in a few maps, can cause problems for the inexperienced melee folk who are poor at switching targets and navigating the Spirit Minefield.

I guess in conclusion, while Spirit-Spamming Ritualists do slow the group down (and yes, they definitely do), there's no reason to discourage playing a Ritualist in general. We can bring some unique stuff to the fight, don't just give up on us just because you see that Rt/_ in the party window.